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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5517 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2004 : 11:10:30 AM
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quote:
The Three Rivers City Commission will be looking for new methods to increase city revenues when it meets at 6 o'clock this evening. Slated for discussion and possible approval is a study for the application of an income tax for residential and non-residential workers. It marks the first time the plan has been presented for public discussion and the city administrative staff is recommending that the low bidder for the study, the Rehman Robson Group of Jackson at a cost of $12,900, be accepted at tonight's meeting. With the loss of several businesses in recent years, and increasing budget costs, the city has been looking for ways to increase its income. Early projections are thatmore than one quarter million dollars could be added to revenues with the application of a personal income tax for workers living in he city and in other areas.
Source: WLKM's News Site
If you want to increase the exodus out of the city and into the burbs there is probably no better way to do it then to increase the cost of living or doing business in the city. It will sure motivate me to move elsewhere.
Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives. |
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tcintriplecreek
Active Poster
145 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 2:42:34 PM
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I'll ask that age-old question.... "What's in it for me?" My guess is absolutely nothing except less money in my pocket every pay period. And what gets me is that we're using $12,900 of taxpayer money to study this, what's to study? This is a working class town and a lot of people can hardly afford to make ends meet, this will only make matters worse for those individuals. So I wonder if this is the type of thing that will jump-start some citizen input into our local government around here?
So scoot over Buck, I'm right there with you on that train out of town if this happens.
One other thing and I may be wrong on this so please correct me if I'm mistaken... could it possibly be that the lowly tax paying citizen is going to be making up for all those tax breaks we've been handing out to businesses here in TR? Sounds like it to me.
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DarylGriffith
Frequent Poster
USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2004 : 07:41:57 AM
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I have to admit that was my first reaction as well, then I remembered actually doing the taxes. I'm no expert in the field but as I understand it taxes paid to a municipality are eligible for a tax credit on your state income tax. Not a deduction but a credit which means every dollar paid in a municipal income tax reduces your state income tax bill (or increases your refund) by the same amount. They negate each other so there should be no net effect to ones bottom line. If... and that is a mighty big if...that proves to be the case it deserves serious consideration. If not, I can't speak for the other commissioners but I am not in favor of adding to our overall tax burden.
Daryl
"Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering.", Arthur C. Clarke. |
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tcintriplecreek
Active Poster
145 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 11:24:23 AM
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| Thanks Daryl for clearing that up. I'm still a little leery about the whole thing, but I guess that's expected when more taxes are mentioned. |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 12:03:33 PM
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Yes thanks for clarifying that Daryl. I wonder how the State will make up for the revenue loss incurred from the credit. Since the state is already in dire financial straits I would assume they will have to raise taxes or fees elsewhere, which would ultimately have a net effect on Three Rivers taxpayers anyway wouldn't it?
Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives. |
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bobtoml
Frequent Poster
USA
927 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 4:00:11 PM
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Tax credit at the end of the year doesn't matter - that money is still gone from your pocket all year long when you really need it from week to week.
I don't mind paying my fair share when it comes to taxes - but as everyone is so fond of saying "The recovery's coming, just tighten your belts and hang on till the slump is over". Looking at a city income tax is a reaction to the current situation that's not suppose to last. I'm always open to hearing why the city needs money - just put all your cards on the table and prove to me it's needed. |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 5:04:00 PM
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Bob knocks one out of the park. I don't know if I have ever been in 100% agreement with you on a political issue before but I am on this one. Thanks for putting that into words!
Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives. |
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DarylGriffith
Frequent Poster
USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 9:12:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bobtoml
Tax credit at the end of the year doesn't matter - that money is still gone from your pocket all year long when you really need it from week to week.
True Bob, but you can adjust your deductions and withholdings to counter this. We have our taxes dialed in to within a few dollars. We usually get a tiny refund from federal and wind up paying it to state coming very close to zeroing out. I too would prefer to have the money through-out the year.
quote:
Originally posted by bobtoml
I'm always open to hearing why the city needs money - just put all your cards on the table and prove to me it's needed.
Well, those sirens are not going to pay for themselves  .
Actually there is a two page list of goals we would like to accomplish. A number of things have been there since I went through my first budget negotiation in '99. They just keep getting pushed back because we don't have the money. And just for the record, I pay the same taxes you do and I am not in favor of hiking them up anytime soon.
Daryl
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bobtoml
Frequent Poster
USA
927 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2004 : 08:05:37 AM
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Trying to anticipate an amount that will or will not be deducted or credited and then discovering at the end of the tax season how you did? Personally I don't care to play financial games with my withholdings. I find most accounting practices to be a black art anyway - which is why we'll most likely not see heads of corporations serving time for manipulating books. Anyway - back to the subject at hand.
When I read the newspaper account of the impending feasability study my first thought was...What could be simpler? Set up booths at each of our grocery stores in town manned by our Mayor and City Manager during peak shopping times and ask the question. Not only would you get the opportunity to hear first hand reactions, but the answers would not be filtered by representatives of a company reporting to the people who pay them their salary. I don't see an approach like that costing $12,900.00. I appreciate the city taking time to look into something but I would appreciate more being asked directly by our own people and not waste time and money on outside resources.
My other thought was in repsonse to what Mayor Lowry mentioned about obtaining tax dollars from renters that don't pay property tax...The landlords pay property tax don't they? Explain to me where the loss is! I'm serious on this! That statement made no sense to me at all.
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DarylGriffith
Frequent Poster
USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 12:43:26 PM
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I don't know where the Mayor was going with his argument but here is my logic. Assume a hypothetical resident pays $100 in state tax. In the good ol' days $20 of this was returned to the community where it was generated (mostly to pay for expenses required by the state). As time goes by the state decides to keep more and more and now we are down to $16 coming back. A local income tax is instituted of $4 which our hypothetical resident can deduct. He or She is paying $100 in state/local taxes and the community is left with $20.
The state may well react as Buck has indicated if enough communities use this tool, however this has been in place for a long time and there are communities that have utilized it for decades.
A second benefit discussed at the meeting but not covered in the news, we will also gain revenue from non-residents who work in the city. They to can receive the tax credit so there is no net effect to them either.
Also Bob, adjusting your deductions is a lot easier than you might think. Your employer should be able to tell you what each dependant claimed on a W4 will change your withholding by and this can be done at any time. Multiply it by the number of checks you get and you can identify the exact impact. You can also add a given dollar figure to withhold each pay period as well if you want to refine it even further. If a local income tax were instituted you would just need to make sure its increase matched the state withholding decrease. I suppose this is a good place for the disclaimer: For the record, once again I am no tax expert. That is why I support the feasibility study so we can grasp the full impact before presenting it to the voters.
Daryl
"Suburbs are places where they cut down the trees and name streets after them", Unknown |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 6:57:17 PM
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quote:
A second benefit discussed at the meeting but not covered in the news, we will also gain revenue from non-residents who work in the city. They to can receive the tax credit so there is no net effect to them either.
I am not saying that I support this idea anymore then I do the original one but does anybody have an idea of how many people qualify for this status? Or is that something that will be explored in the feasibility study?
Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives. |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 7:43:11 PM
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I never heard how this feasibility study turned out. Has anybody else?
Laissez faire: leave the people alone, let them be, in their economic activities, in their religious affairs, in thought and culture, in the pursuit of fulfillment in their own lives. |
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DarylGriffith
Frequent Poster
USA
911 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2005 : 10:39:18 PM
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Buck,
It has not been completed yet. I believe we are expecting this Spring. When that happens the commission will consider whether or not it looks good enough to place it on the ballot.
FYI, the commission cannot legally levy this particular tax. Only the voting public can do it.
Daryl |
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pepa
Obsessed Poster
1255 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:09:08 AM
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| I figured that with ordinace violations, it would be good enough to make up for our short fall. For $6,000 I would be willing to do the study for the city. I have had some statistics along the way. Here is my plan, I will start at McDonalds, Burger King, and other low paying jobs. Business owners will be excluded because they may not be on a salary, for all we know they just collect a dollar a year. Doctors will be excluded, too, since they have to pay malpractice insurance. The management from the few remaining manufacturing places left could be paid from corporate in another city, we would not want to anger them into moving these jobs out of town. City workers would be exempt since it would be some sort of double indemnity. Attorneys would be lumped in with the business owner, just their staff could pay the income taxes. Church staff would be excluded because of their nonprofit statues. I think I covered it all. At the end of my report, I would put in something like, "It is a win-win stituation for all involved." |
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bobtoml
Frequent Poster
USA
927 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 07:55:24 AM
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the commission cannot legally levy this particular tax. Only the voting public can do it.
Now I've got a problem. You have got to know that this won't fly with the public when put to a vote yet the $12,900 was spent anyway?
Why aren't the Civil Defense Sirens up yet?
(bobtoml takes a deep breath and slowly exhales taking a moment for the blood pressure to drop)
Daryl - You once asked my opinion on priority regarding the sirens and I placed them third on a very short list. That list did not include feasability studies of any kind. Had I known earlier that it would take a public referendum to institute the income tax I would have stood up at a commission meeting against that study citing specifically my previous comments. I am extremely disappointed.
(Feeling the heat rise on the back of his neck, ears, bobtoml takes another break to calm down)
Think I'll step away from this conversation for the time being.
(Anger still simmering below the surface) |
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tcintriplecreek
Active Poster
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 3:17:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by pepa
I figured that with ordinace violations, it would be good enough to make up for our short fall. For $6,000 I would be willing to do the study for the city. I have had some statistics along the way. Here is my plan, I will start at McDonalds, Burger King, and other low paying jobs. Business owners will be excluded because they may not be on a salary, for all we know they just collect a dollar a year. Doctors will be excluded, too, since they have to pay malpractice insurance. The management from the few remaining manufacturing places left could be paid from corporate in another city, we would not want to anger them into moving these jobs out of town. City workers would be exempt since it would be some sort of double indemnity. Attorneys would be lumped in with the business owner, just their staff could pay the income taxes. Church staff would be excluded because of their nonprofit statues. I think I covered it all. At the end of my report, I would put in something like, "It is a win-win stituation for all involved."
The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid. - Art Spander |
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Is a City Wide Income Tax good for Three Rivers?
