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Rumor Runner
Frequent Poster
USA
255 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2010 : 4:59:03 PM
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I was zipping up US-131 today when I read a sign outside of the GUN-SLINGER that said something along the lines of "Boycott the Centreville Fair". Any inside scoop on what this is about? 
The RUMOR RUNNER attempts to verify and chase down a variety of rumors in and around St. Joseph County. |
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Rumor Runner
Frequent Poster
USA
255 Posts |
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amazon
Active Poster
100 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 6:13:36 PM
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| *That's* what the fair has been missing--gunfire. |
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tabletop
Frequent Poster
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 8:50:18 PM
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| May have to stop a run away chicken, or an escaped elephant ear. I don't see any responses from all the Libertarians posting on the other thread that property owners (bars and restaurants) should be free to make their own rules about smoking/non-smoking. That is exactly what the fair board is doing with concealed weapons. |
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silentTRobserver
Frequent Poster
770 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 10:16:34 PM
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| The gun owners are beginning to tick me off in the same way that the gay and lesbian gang does too.! Get over yourselves! Just because you have it or subscribe to it you DON"T have to flaunt in everyone else's face. The fair is supposed be FUN - who needs a gun to that? |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5758 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 02:49:28 AM
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OK I will bite.
quote:
*That's* what the fair has been missing--gunfire.
Amazon here are some numbers to contemplate. These are the number of concealed carry permits issued in Michigan each year since 2002.
2002 53,000
2003 27,499
2004 31,121
2005 54,677
2006 36,754
2007 23,790
2008 26,578
2009 66,446
That is a total of 319,865 Concealed Carry Permits issued in this state so far and some how I sleep each night without being awakened by gun fire. And yes Saint Joseph County has a big share of that number. I didn't pull the numbers for this county but you can check them yourself and verify the numbers I posted at the Michigan State Police CPL Website.
The number of Concealed Carry Permits issued in Michigan has not led to any increase in gun deaths. If you look up the numbers I think you will find that violent crime has continued to drop at the same time that the number of permits have increased in Michigan. I compiled the numbers a couple of years ago and they are someone where on this site (I will try and look them up later and post back to this thread).
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May have to stop a run away chicken, or an escaped elephant ear.
Or maybe stop a violent crime or an attempted rape.
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I don't see any responses from all the Libertarians posting on the other thread that property owners (bars and restaurants) should be free to make their own rules about smoking/non-smoking.
As far as I know I am the only (admitted) libertarian who (actively) posts on this board so I guess you are referring to me. So let me take this opportunity to respond. Businesses, or for that matter, any property owner has an absolute right to prohibit weapons on their property. There are no ifs and or buts about it.
The same is not true when it comes to public property because the courts in the State of Michigan have made it clear that local governmental ordinances do not supersede State laws.
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That is exactly what the fair board is doing with concealed weapons.
Since the fair grounds is privately owned and not a public property I agree. They are free to prohibit guns and those who care enough are free to boycott the fair.
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The gun owners are beginning to tick me off in the same way that the gay and lesbian gang does too.! Get over yourselves!
[Start Sarcasm] Yes because exercising your rights in America is just plain annoying and is an action that should be avoided at all costs or otherwise you may tick some one off. [End Sarcasm]
Look we all have our causes and we, in America, have an almost unique freedom to express our passion for our causes. Yes it can some times be annoying but I believe the alternatives are much worse.
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Just because you have it or subscribe to it you DON"T have to flaunt in everyone else's face.
In the case of a concealed weapon you are not flaunting it in someones face. In fact the whole idea of concealed weapon is that it is indeed out of sight and not in someones face.
Open Carry is a different story but if there is no law against something, as is the case, with Open Carry in Michigan. Why should one not be allowed to engage in that legal activity?
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The fair is supposed be FUN - who needs a gun to that?
Me (just kidding but target shooting is a blast). I should say that I have attended the fair (un armed) knowing a head of time that there was a ban on weapons. I didn't like it but I did it out of respect for the person that wanted to spend some time at the fair with me. Oh and she carries too but she is not as fanatical about these things as I am.
Liberty First. Everything else second. |
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EllenJ
Active Poster
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 10:27:50 AM
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Without researching the reasons for the concealed weapon's permit - I always thought it was given to those who had a justifiable reason to carry a gun on oneself i.e. a VIP, or someone who engages in a business in which protection might be needed (legal business that is) such as being a private investigator.
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cuzimrite
Frequent Poster
922 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 11:32:15 AM
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Buck---Your figures of permits issued tells me that gun-owners re-apply every third year. They're breaking the law if that's true.
...and I don't think you're fanatical,just passionate. |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5758 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 1:45:34 PM
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EllenJ that is how it used to be. However in the late 90's there was a big push to put the choice back in the hands of the people instead of with the Bureaucrats. I am pretty sure (although I could be wrong) that Florida started it and as soon as other states realized that it was not going to be the wild west all over again they started to follow suit.
Our legislatures actually turned Michigan into a Shall Issue state, which essentially means that the default mode for the government is to issue the permit unless they can prove that someone shouldn't have it.
The rules are pretty strict and you can lose the ability to conceal carry at any time by breaking them so if you choose to carry it has to become away of life for you.
Cuz I think the law used to say that you had to renew every three years, which explains the jump in numbers. A couple of years ago it was switch to every 5 years. Although unfortunately for me it was done after I applied so mine expires this year in my 3rd year.
You are right though. Summing those numbers is not an accurate way to determine the number of current CPL holders because many of them are reissues as your conclusion pointed out.
Thank you for leaning toward passionate because the line between fanatical and passionite can sometime get pretty thin. I do, however, try to walk on the rational side for the most part.
Liberty First. Everything else second. |
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Shutesie
Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 2:14:12 PM
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| I wonder where they buy their groceries and other stuff? Many stores ban handguns. I wonder where they work? Many employers ban handguns. |
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5758 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 2:56:10 PM
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There are not too many businesses (that I go to anyway) that ban fire arms but there are a few. If I come up to on that does and I am armed I simply go somewhere else. If I need something that is exclusive to that business I just disarm lock up the weapon and do my business. Its not that big of a deal.
I used to work for a company where almost half the people carried while at or around work. I have also worked for a contractor that was typically more heavily armed than I was. Currently I work for a company that doesn't allow weapons to be brought on their property by employees. I knew that going in. And, of course, I told them before they hired me where I stood on the 2nd Amendment, which I am almost obligated to do because of this forum.
So we both know where each other stood on this issue and we decided that what we had to offer each other was more important than either of our feelings about bringing a weapon to work.
I am not one to hold peoples beliefs and convictions against them. I am more relived to find that people have convictions, which I find more interesting than our differences.
Liberty First. Everything else second. |
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Shutesie
Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 9:14:15 PM
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I just said many do? My work place does and when Village Market was open in TR they banned them. I myself don't have a problem with carrying as long as we have rules and standards that must be followed and that are appropriate.
The right for people to wish to boycott the fair is well their choice and should be allowed. Some will think it's over the top and some will think it right on |
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Rumor Runner
Frequent Poster
USA
255 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 11:54:34 PM
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IF as Bill Johnson has claimed that the St. Joseph County Grange Fair IS private property than I want their butts taxed as hard as mine has been lately. Correct me if I am wrong (as I know you will), but if you are private property and are NOT paying any property taxes you should be on the upcoming tax sale. If we find that they SHOULD be paying taxes I say let's slap them with some retroactive tax fees and they can then prohibit guns anytime they like....right after they write Centreville and the County of St. Joseph about a Zillion Dollars in back-taxes.
The RUMOR RUNNER attempts to verify and chase down a variety of rumors in and around St. Joseph County. |
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Shutesie
Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 12:56:52 AM
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I don't necessarily think that one has anything to do with the other.
Aren't exceptions to property taxes given all the time for various reasons.
I would think that even if no property taxes are being paid on what amounts to an empty field a good portion of the time the amount of income for Centreville business' generated by fair ground makes up for any loss that not taxing the lot causes.
And if he was to owe taxes they would put a lien on his property to get the money. Until he actually lost title to the land it would be his and if he wished to ban handguns he could do it. I think that's the way the law is written.
And if you wish to boycott the fair because of the ban you could and if enough people stopped going to the fair he would either have to shut down or re-think his policy about carrying.
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pepa
Obsessed Poster
1340 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 12:39:51 AM
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Gun slinger guy is just an odd duck. So, what if you walk in packing? Who is going to know? That way if you see a rape, murder, or someone threating your life you shoot them and you say it was self defense. What jury is going to send you away. The NRA will defend you and so would all the other gun rights groups. If nothing happens at the fair than who did it hurt?
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"Three Rivers needs an Honest Joe in City Hall." Pepa
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Buck
Forum Admin
USA
5758 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 7:30:30 PM
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The Boycott Story is back in the news. I added to another thread instead of this one by mistake but I am going to leave it there because it goes into why the fair can legally do what they are doing. The thread can be found here Saint Joseph County Fair at odds with state law?
Liberty First. Everything else second. |
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Boycott Centreville's Fair?
