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AH.Free
Active Poster

131 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2012 :  8:53:51 PM  Show Profile
You are right on your last comment,if this companies would do what is right there would not be any needs for regulations .Why do you think they go to China it's not the Chinese that are wrong it is the Traitor American companies that for profit they do anything so now they go and pollute another part of the world with out restrictions and that is what some of us American call capitalism
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AH.Free
Active Poster

131 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2012 :  8:58:34 PM  Show Profile
Still for me, Ronny is our man
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Shutesie
Active Poster

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2012 :  3:03:47 PM  Show Profile
So Ron Paul not only wins the Republican nomination but takes the White House. President Paul moves in and does what?

Follows party line?

or jumps in the phonebooth and puts on his Libertarian supersuit.

If that's the case what does he do first and how?
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Buck
Forum Admin

USA
6602 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2012 :  3:18:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit Buck's Homepage
It's not going to happen but for the sake of this discussion he would not follow party line and there would be gridlock galore (from both parties), which depending on your perspective could be a good thing. What do you think A.H. ?


Liberty First. Everything else second.
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Shutesie
Active Poster

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 02/03/2012 :  2:36:58 PM  Show Profile
I agree, he would don the supersuit but I would be curious to see what he tried to accomplish. Would we see a lot of wheeling and dealing? Would he compromise certain things to get others through? I think the direction he traveled would depend greatly on the split in Congress. More Dems he works items on his agenda that appeal to their goals more Repubs and the opposite is true. Either way he's dealing with the devil.
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AH.Free
Active Poster

131 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2012 :  11:32:48 PM  Show Profile
You are both right it would be chaos but I think we as Americans have to wake up and not let the media and who ever its doing the thinking for the rest of the country decide for us ,we need to wake up I know that there is no perfect candidate but I am willing to give him a tried
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Shutesie
Active Poster

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2012 :  10:17:34 AM  Show Profile
The thing is there are things that he believes that fit each of the two parties agendas. The question is would he work with them to push forward his goals by working within their frameworks or would government simply shutdown. As President he would not have the luxury of allowing the country to fail. I would hope that he didn't see that as an option anyway.

He isn't really running to be President anyway, so the whole thought is moot.
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vblainev
Obsessed Poster

USA
1063 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2012 :  8:20:45 PM  Show Profile
I understand this guy wants to legalize drugs. From heroine to crack cocaine and all the rest. How can anyone take this guy seriously. Drugs destroy lives. Not just the user but their children, their families and many others around them.
Our courts are full of abandoned and abused children whose parents are addicted to drugs and the damage doesn't stop there. It ruins families for generations which cost this country far more than enforcing drug laws.

This idea of legalizing drugs is like, a dam that has some serious leaks, so Ron Paul's cure is blowing up the dam altogether. The result would be massive destruction without borders. It would make New Orleans look like a bath tub overflowed.

Edited by - vblainev on 02/07/2012 8:22:58 PM
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Shutesie
Active Poster

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  08:44:57 AM  Show Profile
I'm guessing you haven't noticed that the 'war on drugs' has been a horrible failure. Ron Paul believes in limited government. He doesn't want the government making decisions for us. By making drugs illegal we have actually created a problem that didn't exist before the drugs were made illegal. If drugs were legal they could be regulated in a similar fashion as cigarettes and alcohol. You could tax them and generate revenue. People who were addicted could get help with out risking being thrown in jail. I've read studies that found that most people who are addicted to drugs want off but are unable to get help because what they are doing is a crime.

In the pursuit of money to pay for drugs, crimes are committed. If you make drugs legal you could eliminate a great deal of crime. Go back to prohibition, the illegal alcohol trade basically created the mob.

If you were to treat these drugs as controlled substances requiring a doctor prescription you could direct people with problems into programs much easier. It would still be a crime to drive while impaired, provide drugs to kids, make drugs without proper licensing.

Ron Paul is someone who truly believes in what he believes 100%. If you believe in limited government then you limit government period.
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Buck
Forum Admin

USA
6602 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  11:51:14 AM  Show Profile  Visit Buck's Homepage
Thank you Shutesie that is exactly what I was going to say.

I would only add that using "abused children" as a reason to restrict freedom and reduce personal responsibility is a slippery slope for "We the People". The exact same argument could be used to ban certain religious organizations, alcohol sales, home schooling, sports, and anything else that could potentialy have some association with child abuse (real or imagined).

We, as a people, need to stop blaming "things" for our deficiancies. We need to hold PEOPLE accountable and responsible for their actions.

Also: Just imagine what our courts, the police and social workers could do for abused children if they weren't dealing with policing marijuana use alone.


Liberty First. Everything else second.
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vblainev
Obsessed Poster

USA
1063 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  7:12:49 PM  Show Profile
It's a Utopian idea that just doesn't hold water.
The idea that making drugs legal will stop crime is unrealistic. Drug use WOULD sky rocket and drug dealers would offer a better price so drug users would still use drug dealers to get their drugs. To think otherwise is fooling yourself.

An establishment that sold drugs would need a store front. An employee or employees. Insurance. A high quality security system. A security guard and the list of expenses would go on and on, just like any other business.

If an establishment that sold drugs, sold them to an addict that was high and the addict committed a crime under the influence or killed another human being while driving or in the act of a robbery the establishment would get sued or charged as an accessory. More crime plus another reason to charge huge prices for insurance.

Drug addicts would continue stealing because they simply don't have the funds to pay for their habit. Just because drugs were made legal doesn't mean a 500 dollar a day habit is affordable.

Drugs are extremely destructive and legalizing them WOULD drastically increase the use. Now because we have more drug addicts , we would have more crime not less. More families falling apart. More children in foster care and the list of destruction would go on and on with no real understanding of the scope of the problem till many years down the road. It's a road this nation can not afford to go down.

It reminds me of the hippie days where free love was the answer to Americas woes ( another Utopian idea ) and the result was STDs running rapid, costing billions.
The morel fiber of our Nation crumbling, costing billions. Family values disintegrating. Single parent home skyrocketing, more and more families on government assistance and children lost in the whole mess again costing billions.

Everyone I've talked to who thinks this idea of legalizing drugs is a good one, always paint the same picture without really taking the time to look at a drug addicts life and what they will go to getting the cash to buy their drugs. It's a simply equation, more drug users equal more crime, plain and simple.

Hey America free sex ! It's free with no cost to anyone ! Right
Wrong free sex cost this nation beyond measure. Legalizing drugs would be no different !!!

Edited by - vblainev on 02/08/2012 7:17:30 PM
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Shutesie
Active Poster

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  7:49:49 PM  Show Profile
Why would drug prices go up or for that matter stay the same. You sell most drugs through pharmacies or licensed dealers - who are registered regulated and taxed. Government subsides to help people who can't afford them possibly tied to getting help with their addiction. We have a perfect example to use in the effects of criminalization of drugs. Look at what happened in this country when alcohol was criminalized then look what happened after it was legalized. It's the criminal aspect that created the high costs of drugs.

Why would people start using drugs just because their legal?

If you've seen the statistics alcohol and cigarettes use is trending downward. These substances are legal to use but people are using them less and less because people understand the negatives of abuse of them. People have the same feelings about illegal drugs.
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vblainev
Obsessed Poster

USA
1063 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  8:46:58 PM  Show Profile
Enjoy living in your Utopian world. It's filled with fantasy ideas, fantasy results and fantasy drug ADDICTS who would never steal, kill or heaven forbid drive under the influence. They would never take another persons belongings to pay for their habit.
In Utopia, drug addicts would finally see the error of their ways and return as a productive member of society.

You can't really believe this stuff, Can you ???

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cuzimrite
Obsessed Poster

1007 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  9:22:06 PM  Show Profile
The question is moot. Brewers, distillers, and Big Pharma would never allow it to happen.
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Shutesie
Active Poster

USA
157 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  2:31:30 PM  Show Profile
Addiction is a disease. It's using the body's own processes against itself. By removing the criminal aspect of disease you can more easily treat the underlying illness. Your assumption is that drug addicts want to be addicted and that they want to steal. Point one, once they reach the stage of addition they don't want to be there but they can no longer help themselves. Point two, I'm suggestion giving them the drugs for FREE, with the stipulation of them seeking help. No need to steal or kill to get something for free.

What fantasy land do you live in. Please give me some proof of your claims. I have pointed out prohibition as a clear example of the ineffectiveness of making something illegal as a way to stop people from using it. I can give you statistics if you like on the effectiveness of education and changing societal attitudes about drinking and smoking in the reduction in the use of those drugs.

By no means, do I want to suggest that this is a perfect solution but the criminalization of drugs has caused far more harm than good.

To cuzimrite point I don't see any of those groups stopping this idea. Heck, Big Pharma would probably become a chief supplier of the drugs and again most people are not going to take up drugs if they are legal so it's not like beer and alcohol would stand as losers in this. It's the politicians and the conservatives who would stop this. Drugs provide a nice scapegoat and EVIL to have a "WAR ON". It's big money to them. For all their talk of 'limited government' that isn't what they really want anyway. They only want limited government where it intrudes on their activities. It's big government for the rest of us.

And for the record I have never used illegal drugs and I would not start if they became legal. My reason for not using is simple. I don't need them to feel good about myself or to just feel good. It's a false sense anyway. I have known and still know people I could get them from so access was never a problem. I just never felt that I needed them. I've never smoked. I never understood the need to do something I try to avoid while sitting around a campfire - breathing in smoke. I've been drunk a few times in my life and it never impressed me. I do enjoy a nice cold one on a regular basis and a margarita now and then never did me any harm. A glass of wine is nice but I don't care for dry ones. As a matter of fact I think the image of me on a caribbean island beach drinking an ice cold Corona or possibly a Carib sounds really good right now.
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